Monday, May 19, 2008

NOW is the time, not later!

Having grown up in a Oneness, Pentecostal church, it has been instilled in me that there is One God. I've been told since I was little that there is only One God, and no trinity. And I really do believe that. The thing is, I wouldn't have been able to show you proof of that. I wouldn't have known where to look in the Bible to back up my belief of One God. Well, recently, I've been getting into reading my Bible more, and really just wanting to get closer to God and learn more about Him. My dad is teaching my brother and I Search for Truth, (A Bible study) I had Search for Truth taught to me when I was younger, but still did not understand somethings, mostly because of my age. Now that my dad is teaching it to me at an older age, I'm getting a lot out of it and finally understanding the more deeper things in the Bible. Right now, I'm reading a book that some of you have probably heard of, called "Is Jesus in the Godhead or Is the Godhead in Jesus?" I'm getting so much out of it, and finally understanding the Oneness of God. It's written by an old time Pentecostal, Bro. Gordon Magee. He writes very clearly and backs everything up with Scripture. If you're ever having a bad time trying to explain Oneness to somebody, this is the book to give them. It's only 47 pages. I know a lot of people that have the "I'm young and having fun right now so I'll just study the Bible when I'm older" attitude. But you know, we don't have time for that. God is coming back so soon, and we have to be ready. The Bible says in 2 Timothy 2:15, "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." I want to be approved unto God. I've been learning a lot just from getting into the Bible more, and I want to encourage all the young people like me out your Bible NOW! Study NOW! NOW NOW NOW is the time!! Not later. God will reveal things to you if you do. Whenever you're trying to tell somebody about the Holy Ghost, or about Repentance, or Oneness, whatever the subject is, you can't always go running to your mom or dad or the pastor to give you the verses to back you up. There's nothing wrong with asking to learn, but you have to study and learn yourself too. How do you think your pastor learned everything he knows from the Bible? He got into it himself. So I encourage you, read, study, learn, and grow in God.


Kevin Hopper said...

Studying God's word is important! My wife and I have worked with youth in various churches in Bible study and even in Bible Quizzing.

We not only helped them to memorize but also to understand what the scipture was saying and tied the verses to other verses so they could rightly divide the word.

Jennifer said...

I did Bible quizzing for a few years! It's good to do but can be I was in it this year but we dropped out because it was too much for all of us right now, but since then, I've been studying and reading the Bible on my own and things are making a lot more sense! Thanks for coming by...

Adam Pastor said...

Greetings Jennifer ...

It is so true that there is solely ONE GOD.
And it is also true that there is no trinity.

However, have you considered the possibly that although the fulness of the Godhead does indeed dwell in Jesus Christ, this does NOT make Jesus Christ himself, Almighty GOD!!

What I am proposing that there is indeed solely ONE GOD, the Father.
[1 Cor 8.4,6]

However, the Lord Jesus is who he claimed to be:
the Messiah, the Son of the Living GOD!!

You see, Jesus never ever claimed to be Almighty GOD.
He never ever claimed to be the Father.
Rather, he identified the Father as the only true GOD!

(John 17:3) And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Concerning Col 2.9; Paul prayed that we all be filled with the fullness of GOD.
(Eph 3:19) And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

So in Jesus, all the fulness indeed dwells according to the ONE GOD, the Father's pleasure; [Col 1.19]
However, that doesn't make His Son, GOD!!

I am very well acquainted with the Oneness doctrine;
and what I am saying is,
according to the Scriptures,
both Oneness & trinity are wrong!

There is solely ONE GOD, the Father.
Jesus of Nazareth, is the ONE GOD, the Father's only-begotten human Son.
He died for our sins; the ONE GOD raised him from the dead, set him at His right hand and made him both Lord & Christ.

So we have ONE GOD, the Father.
And ONE Lord, the man Christ Jesus.

Jennifer, for more info,
I recommend the video:
The Human Jesus

Take a couple of hours to watch it; and let me know what you think!

Yours In Messiah
Adam Pastor

(1 Cor 8:4) ... that there is none other God but one.
(1 Cor 8:6) But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

(1 Tim 2:5) For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

(2 John 1:3) Grace be with you, mercy, and peace, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love.

Jerus said...

Jennifer whats up! Great post, we all need to study more and understand clearly!

Also for the gentleman who is confused, read 1 John 3:16

Adam Pastor said...

Yes. Let's look at 1 John 3.16.

Not sure, if you know this.
But in our english bibles, when you see words in italics;
this is done to inform us that these words were added to the translation! That is they were not in the original hebrew/greek;
these words were added to bring out the sense of the verse
from the translators' point of view

Now look at 1 John 3.16
(1 John 3:16) Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.

Note the words "of God" are in italics to inform the reader they are NOT in the original text.
So, the text actually reads:
"Hereby perceive we the love, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down lives for the brethren."

Perceive we the love because Christ, GOD's Son, laid down his life for us!

Always bear in mind that
Almighty GOD cannot die.
He alone possesses immortality inherently.
[1 Tim 6.16]
Immortality means "deathlessness,
one cannot die"

So Almighty GOD cannot & did not die.
His Son did.
No verse ever says that GOD died!

(Rom 5:8) But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
(1 Cor 15:3) For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

Jerus said...

adam, I would like to continue this discussion, I do not want to hijack this post though so please feel free to email me.


DeadMule said...

Hi Jen, Study for yourself. Don't be tripped up by someone you never heard of who just appeared on your blog. If you believe in Oneness, fine. If, after more study, you change your mind, that's fine, too. But trust the same God you've known since you were a child. That God will lead you where you should be.
Love, Helen

Jennifer said...

Adam Pastor: Thank you for reading my post. But have you taken into consideration 1 Timothy 3:16, John 10:30, or 1 John 5:7?

1 John 5:7 says that the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost are ONE! And when we read John 1:1, it says "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." We also see in John 1:14, that the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us. If the Word is God, and the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us, that means that God was made flesh and dwelt among us! And we know that that must be reffering to Jesus Christ. In Isaiah 9:6 there is a prophecy of Jesus being born. His name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace. A child was indeed born, and that child was Jesus. Jesus is God, the almighty God. It almost seems to me as if you believe in two Gods.

I know that in our Oneness, Pentecostal churches, where we believe in Holiness, whenever the Oneness is taught on or preached about, the power of God is there. His presence comes into the place, because there is something powerful about truth. God loves truth, and He is truth.

God bless!

Jennifer said...

Jerus- Good to hear from you!! Thank you for your comment, I hope to hear from you again on my blog. Please tell your little sister I said hi! =)

Helen- Thank you! lol I am curious about one thing, though. Do you believe in obeying the Bible? I get the impression from you comment and previous comments that you believe anyone can believe what they want--and yes, they can, but they can't do that and be saved. What do you believe you have to do to get to heaven?

Jana Allard said...

Jennifer - You are brave to tackle this on a public site. Let me tell you a bit about me. I was raised in a oneness home. When I was about your age, my best friend at school was an Assembly of God pastor's daughter. She was a great girl with conservative morals. I started questioning. Does she believe her doctrine because she was raised that way and do I believe my doctrine because of how I was raised. That is when I started studying for my own understanding. I came to the conclusion that there is only one God and His name is Jesus. There are so many scriptures that validate this. However, I know that God has many manifestations. He was the Rose of Sharon, the Lily of the Valley, the Son in Redemption, Prince of Peace, a baby in a manger, Lord of all, Master, Savior, and this list could become a mile long. Jennifer, forget what everyone says in your comments and study continue to study. As the Bible says, the Holy Ghost will lead and guide you into ALL truth.

Jerus said...

Preach it Sis Allard!

Jennifer, your on the right track you will get stronger and stronger in the doctrine as more people challenge you, because challenges strengthen truth!

DeadMule said...

Hi Jen, I just got to my computer after a busy, busy day. I certainly do believe in obeying the Bible. The problem is that different people study the Bible and come to different conclusions. The majority of Christians believe in the Trinity (a term that isn't in the Bible but seems implied to many of us). In fact, only just recently have I heard of Oneness. It seems to me like splitting hairs. Jana believes in Oneness; I believe in the trinity (One God in Three persons: Father, Son, and Holy Ghost); and yet what she says makes perfect sense to me.

I believe that after the Resurrection of Jesus, we live in the age of grace. I don't believe salvation depends on our figuring out a puzzle and coming up with the right answer. I believe salvation is available to all because Jesus paid for the sins of everyone. Salvation is the gift of God to His beloved children. It is God's will that everyone go to heaven. As for who does and who doesn't, that's God's business and not mine. I don't think salvation depends on deciding whether you believe in Oneness or the Trinity. I think it depends on trusting Jesus as your personal Savior.

Did I answer your question?

Adam Pastor said...

LOL Jennifer!

How many times did I mention in my post "ONE GOD"?
I only believe in ONE GOD!
The same ONE GOD, Jesus believes in!
(John 17:1) These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father,...
(John 17:3) And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

The same ONE GOD, Paul & the Early Church believed in!
(1 Cor 8:6) But to us there is but one God, the Father, ...

Now all the verses you have mentioned I have indeed considered.
And in all fairness, they are all dealt with in the video I spoke of:
The Human Jesus

Please view it.
In short ...
1 John 5.7 ... well how do I delicately put this; besides being a so-called trinitarian prooftext; it is not the kinda foundation to build one's house on [Matt 7.26];
A certain word springs to mind beginning with "for" & ending with "y".
Please view the video to find out what I mean.

Again 1 Tim 3.16 is not as solid as your may suppose.
Nevertheless, Jesus is indeed "the manifestation of GOD" in the flesh
That is, the ONE GOD is made known through His Son,
Jesus of Nazareth.
See John 1.18

John 1:1 is speaking about the word of God.
GOD's [spoken] word was made flesh resulting in the conception of Jesus of Nazareth; thus, Jesus is what the word of GOD became.
Note: it says the word was made flesh.
It does not say "God was made flesh."
Think about that! There is a difference.

John 10:30 ... Jesus & his Father are indeed "one" in love, unity, purpose and fellowship.
In fact, Jesus prayed in John 17; that we all be "one" even as he & his Father are "one."
Answer to that prayer wouldn't make us, Almighty GOD, would it??

(John 17:11) And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
(John 17:21-22) That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

Isaiah 9:6 says nothing about "Almighty GOD"

In fact, the Hebrew for "mighty God",
el gibbor is a term used to describe a mighty man/warrior.
And it is actually used in plural in Ezek 32.21 translated
"The strong among the mighty"

So in what sense can the Messiah be called "God"?
Well we know that he is indeed "The Prophet like unto Moses." [Deut 18.15] and that he is mightier/greater than Moses [Heb 3.3].
Therefore, please see
Exo 7.1, 4.16; Psa 82.6; John 10.34-36. And hopefully these verses will help answer that question.

Like I said, Jennifer. The video goes into more detail about each of the verses that you have listed.

Yes, I am very well acquainted with the Oneness doctrine.
So I am fully aware of the prooftexts used.
However, as someone said,
GOD's spirit will indeed lead & guide you into ALL truth.

Watch the video; pray over its findings.
And if you have any questions feel free to ask.

Yours In Messiah
Adam Pastor
The Human Jesus

Peter Connell said...


Sounds to me as though you believe that Jesus was merely a man (can anyone say Arius). You mentioned that he never did claim to be God, but you have to ignore a lot of Bible to say that He is not, "God with us." (Matthew 1:23).

You said that the Father is God and that Jesus' statement, "I and my Father are one," is answered by simply comparying it with Jesus' high-priestly prayer in John 17. Have we forgotten that Jesus told Phillip, "Have I been so long with you and yet thou hast not known me? He that hath seen me, hath seen the Father, how sayest thou then, shew us the Father."

My red-letter edition Bible has Jesus saying in Revelation 1:8:

I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

and again in vs 11:

...I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last... THE first and THE last (Compare Isa. 41:4; 44:6; 43:13; 48:12; Micah 5:2; and then throw in Rev. 1:17 and Rev. 22:13 for good measure.

Again Jesus says in Revelation 22:16

I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

You said that I Timothy 3:16 was not that strong of a proof text. Really?

It seems to tell us that GOD was:

- manifest in the flesh
- justified in the Spirit
- seen of angels
- preached unto the Gentiles
- believed on in the world
- received up into glory.

You may not understand what jesus was saying in John 8:56, but the Jews who were present sure did:

John 8:56-57
(56) Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
(57) Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?

They understood Him to say that not only had Abraham seen His day - but that Jesus had seen Abraham.

The next statement of Jesus was a clincher - for He invoked terminology that only the mighty God had used: "I am"

John 8:58
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

In the very next verse they took up stones to stone Him.

Why did they want to stone Him? because, as they had said again when they heard Jesus say "I and my Father are one," (John 10:30), "because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God."

I could go on with many, many proof-texts that Jesus is the mighty God of the Old Testament, but I won't.

BTW, A word for Jennifer. You're really doing great! Your a great daughter, a great Christian and I know that you know and understand who Jesus is. Keep studying. Way to go Jen!

Another word to Adam,

My daughter was using this post to demonstrate her faith and appreciation for what she is learning, not for the foundation of a debate. Let's try to keep it that way. If you'd like to discuss this further with me off of Jennifer's blog, let me know - I'd be more than happy to.

Adam Pastor said...

Point taken Sir.


Jennifer said...

Sis. Allard- I kind of came to the same conclusion. I really believed the Oneness and all that in my heart, but I thought, "how do I KNOW? Do I just believe this because of the way I was raised?" I'm glad I started studying more and am able to see the truth for myself.

Jerus- Thanks! I'll keep studying. =)

Helen- Thank you for your reply. You pretty much answered my question. I was just curious to what you believe because of the way you state your opinion on things. For example, I've gotten the impression that you think anyone who tries to do good or at least believes in God, can live how that want and they're still okay. I liked what you said:

"I don't believe salvation depends on our figuring out a puzzle and coming up with the right answer."

Me either. It's not a puzzle, and the Bible simply states the truth. But I do believe Salvation is more than just accepting Jesus as your personal Savior. We need to recieve the Holy Ghost and be baptized in Jesus name, too.

By the way Helen, if I haven't told you before, you're cool. =)

Dad- Thanks!!! I love you!

Peter Connell said...

Jen, I love you too.